Facebooking With an Atheist

I had a little talk with someone who didn’t believe. I thought it was interesting.

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Posted on October 13, 2011, in Pop Culture, Quotes and tagged , . Bookmark the permalink. 4 Comments.

  1. In response to your facts:

    Fact 1: There is zero extra-biblical evidence of the existence of Jesus. Even the Biblical evidence was written years after he was supposed to have died by non-eye-witnesses. That puts the existence of the man in question, and that’s even before we look at the supernatural claims about him.

    Fact 2 is obvious and correct.

    Fact 3 is wrong. You have anecdotes written decades later, and nothing outside the Bible confirming it, other than the general fact that Romans did in fact crucify a lot of their enemies.

    “You have to pick 1 of those 3.”

    No you don’t.

    That’s known as a false dichotomy. Or trichotomy, in this case.

    Another possibility, and the most likely to me, is that it was a legend based in part on some real people.

    “It all comes down to faith, not facts.”

    Then why do you need facts? Especially given that the ones you presented are wrong or misleading.

    I see no good reason to use faith for anything.

    • response to your facts:

      Fact 1: There is zero extra-biblical evidence of the existence of Jesus. Even the Biblical evidence was written years after he was supposed to have died by non-eye-witnesses. That puts the existence of the man in question, and that’s even before we look at the supernatural claims about him.

      My rebuttal

      Really, are you seriously saying there is no extra biblical evidence? Look up: Josephus (A.D. 37 – c. A.D. 100), Tacitus (c. A.D. 55 – c. A.D. 117), Suetonius (c. A.D. 69 – c. A.D. 140), and Julius Africanus (c. 160 – c. 240).

      Fact 2 is obvious and correct.

      My rebuttal

      No rebuttal needed, but I offer you an Internet high five for agreeing with this one. Though, it is hard for someone who didn’t exist to die.

      Fact 3 is wrong. You have anecdotes written decades later, and nothing outside the Bible confirming it, other than the general fact that Romans did in fact crucify a lot of their enemies.

      My rebuttal

      Galatians references the crucifixion and seems to incorporate parts of already known creeds and formulas. It was likely written as early as the 40’s which is a decade after.

      “You have to pick 1 of those 3.”

      No you don’t.

      That’s known as a false dichotomy. Or trichotomy, in this case.

      Another possibility, and the most likely to me, is that it was a legend based in part on some real people.

      My rebuttal

      If it’s a legend, then it’s a lie. Even if it’s a lie invented to teach people good, it’s a lie. One of the 3 choices I gave. It may be a lie, or it may be true.

      “It all comes down to faith, not facts.”

      Leprechaun n

      Then why do you need facts? Especially given that the ones you presented are wrong or misleading.

      I see no good reason to use faith for anything.

      You don’t use faith for anything. Do you set an alarm clock, and stay up all night and watch it to make sure it goes off? Do you take apart your brake lines and inspect them before every drive? You, likely live your life with some level of faith. You may not believe in God, but I’m sure you believe in some things that you have found to be true.

      Final Thoughts

      I, completely, support and defend your right to believe or not-believe in whatever you’d like.

      Still, I am convinced that Jesus died and that He rose again. It’s a crazy claim, and I could be wrong. His message of loving and caring for others drives me. Don’t confuse centuries of people’s interpretations of His teachings with what He said. Love is His message. Love is what this place needs. I only want to share the message that we should love others and give to those in need.

      Have a great day and thanks for commenting!

      • “Really, are you seriously saying there is no extra biblical evidence? Look up: ”

        I have.

        Basic math shows us that the earliest of those writers, Josephus, wasn’t born until 3 years after Jesus was supposed to have died.

        The writers you reference confirm the existence of Christians. Not Jesus. And none are contemporary to the time Jesus was supposed to have lived.

        So, I’m really not impressed.

        “If it’s a legend, then it’s a lie. Even if it’s a lie invented to teach people good, it’s a lie.”

        Calling it a lie implies an intent. Legends can and do form naturally and unintentionally.

        “You don’t use faith for anything. Do you set an alarm clock, and stay up all night and watch it to make sure it goes off?”

        That’s not faith. That’s trust based on recordable and repeatable evidence, observation and experience.

        “you believe in some things that you have found to be true” is not the definition of ‘faith’.

        Find something I believe in by faith, and the first thing I will do is stop believing it.

      • Faith and trust can be interchangeable the word is derived from the Latin word for trust.

        History is based on what others have said and you have to trust them to a point.

        I am interested in your complete rejection of Jesus’ crucifixion. There several other sites/book/journals that list in detail extra-biblical records.

        Unfortunately, they are all indeed written after Jesus’ life. He did not employ a personal recorder. But, that does not invalidate them.

        The gospels were not ever presented as legend. I’m not saying you have to believe them, but they are certainly not warm hearted and neat little inspirational stories. They are written as if they are conveying actual events.

        What would you say is the message of the Gospels?

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